disenchanted a Lothar from a pack to craft the rest of the tool neccessary for Boar Hunter... I got the achivement yesterday against a Face Hunter
keyvnn9 (3.9)1 day ago If the primary goal is to make the necessary nerfs, then making a worse field for a fun and fancy deck is an sad but necessary side effect
Kosmyc (3.5)1 day ago "How did they nerf Quest rogue?"
This was misleading, I meant that Quest Rogue's good MUs got nerfed and their bad ones got untouched.
Mzop (3.9)1 day ago здраво пријатели, се надевам дека имате убав ден :). Исто само да знаете дека јас се враќам во хибернација па нема да слушнете од мене неколку месеци
-Мзоп
Kapiork2 days ago @Mzop Either that or Alterac Valley.
DustenStein (4.1)2 days ago At least you got the class that would get the most buffs right haha
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 days ago Even my one nerf guess (I didnt post it but Backfire to 4 mana) didnt happen
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 days ago I got 0 predictions right :’(
Mzop (3.9)2 days ago prediction for next set is wintergrasp, its icy like the set thing and horde and alliance fight, prob gonna add the vault of archavon bosses as legendaries or som.
DustenStein (4.1)2 days ago Also, next set? Like third of this year? I doubt that highly unless there's strong evidence it's not going to be a confrontation between Horde and Alliance
DustenStein (4.1)2 days ago I hoped it would take them much longer
DustenStein (4.1)2 days ago I'd rather they didn't until I'm done in a year or so but it's probably inevitable at this point
MaliceAlice2 days ago I remember someone here thinking of making a shadowland custom set. Well guess what, that could be hs' next set! they will release 4 or 5 shadowland hero skins
DustenStein (4.1)2 days ago How did they nerf Quest rogue?
Poondaedalin (4)3 days ago "Quest Rogue got nerfed, and Quest Mage remains untouched"
History repeats itself lmao
Kosmyc (3.5)3 days ago look man I'm just excited because boar hunter got buffed (both the weapon and the minion are synergistic in the archetype)
unforuntately Quest Rogue got nerfed (it's two worst matchups, Quest Mage and Handbuff Paladin remain untouched)
keyvnn9 (3.9)3 days ago I will just say: These complaints about the game have been happening since Naxxramas. This situation where Blizzard doesnt care about the game anymore has never been a new development. Except in Naxxramas.
keyvnn9 (3.9)3 days ago The DH nerf was a very necessary thing from what I know, even without nerfing the other classes
DustenStein (4.1)3 days ago those were meta predictions btw (this is the final final comment though )
DustenStein (4.1)3 days ago Final comment for now (probably):
My bet is on Pirate Warrior WITHOUT the Questline. Since some decks will still run it, it will have a clear advantage on turn 1 and if it manages to maintain it (for example using Shiver their Timbers (or whatever it's called)) and hit face, it might become super strong.
Second place will still be occupied by a variation Handbuff Paly since it's good right now already and its weaknesses are Shaman, Lock and Mage of which two were nerfed.
Third place by either Taunt Druid. Fourth Garrote Rogue if it gets easier to use, otherwise a variation on Quest Shaman.
Below that are Quest Pirate Warrior, Secret Paly, Mage, Demon Hunter, Hunter and Warlock, maybe even in that order
DustenStein (4.1)3 days ago Out of the Pirate buffs, Freebooter worries me the most (assuming they keep playing the Questline). Even though 1 mana 2/2 with upside is great, Freebooter was already a wonderful card in a lot of situations and now that the body itself is great, it might be very strong for its Cost
Poondaedalin (4)3 days ago I keep forgetting that Priest is Aggro-focused in this expansion! It's funny how far Priest has come as a class. As for my comment, I was mainly thinking about Priest's historical characteristics, but I feel like they still sorta shine through today, since, as with the destroy effects and rez effects, there's not a whole lot your opponent can do about aggro, and the things that do work will likely make your opponent concede immediately, which isn't a particularly fulfilling victory. No matter if you win or lose, you're coming out of that fight less happy than when you entered.
DustenStein (4.1)3 days ago I didn't know Brute needed nerfs and that's all I'm gonna say about that.
Perpetual Flame is only good since there are cards that unlock mana crystals pretty constantly (in my experience). I think the Cost nerf will make it weaker but in a bad way.
As for your comment Poonda, Priest's best strategy is aggro Shadow Priest. It uses Illucia to "take an extra turn" by leaving its hand empty and switching with their opponent to steal their answers to everything.
Buffs are alarming but exciting. Who knows who will prevail? Aggro Pirate Warrior? Will they dump the quest for tempo or will they midrange and use the Quest reward? Will Hero Power Mage make a comeback? Will Quest Mage start running minions? Will hunter's strategy be still as bad?
Poondaedalin (4)3 days ago I would've liked to see it as a 2 Mana with that effect as well, tbh. It was already being used as an aggro card, but seeing it being used as a temporary hand-fill card like Evocation would have been really cool, and 3 Mana is way too high of a cost for that.
DustenStein (4.1)3 days ago As for the nerfs, I think Warlocks Quest is fair. I would have preferred the "damage dealt by *cards*"-nerf but that's alright too, guess. Doesn't hit handlock as bad. Rod is fair. Those discounts get out of hand pretty quickly. I'm a little bummed out about Illucia. They didn't even unnerf the Cost. I think it's pointless to play it now since you don't even outplay your opponent in any way that they could not have forseen. Pointless at least in a way it was run before.
Poondaedalin (4)3 days ago Look, as much of a cesspool as Blizzard post comments are, you can't deny that these card changes are, at the very least, alarming. 1 Mana 2/2 with an upside that curves into Fiery Waraxe on Turn 2 alongside a Dread Corsair for 1 Mana on the following turn is a terrifying prospect. That being said, Priest in Hearthstone is a lot like Pyro in TF2. They could be nerfed to the point of complete unusuability, but as long as they exist, some random doofus is going to get mad and write an essay about how the class is horribly unbalanced and deserved to be nerfed. It's just in the nature of a class built around annoying core characteristics. Losing your progress in a fight after your opponent heals half their Health and randomly having your minions destroyed with little effort by your opponent feels bad.
DustenStein (4.1)3 days ago I like the buffs A LOT. They are so strong. Can't wait for everything to change. Hero Power Mage will be interesting to play around with now that Wildfire costs 1 mana.
Also, keyvnn, it doesn't matter what those people think. what do you think?
keyvnn9 (3.9)3 days ago “Seriously just fire the entire development team because you guys are absolutly clueless” -In response to only halving and otherwise nerfing Leapfrog build
“Killed the warlock, practically excluded a class from the game, while quest mage will remain op and toxic. Ty Blizzard. Uninstalling the game.” -In response to nerfing the most complained about class and not the most overplayed and weak class
“It’s official, they are purposely trying to kill the game. Nobody is this Oblivious or ignorant.” -In response to reverting turn length increase turns 3-9, complaint about length of “later rounds”
“Garrote Rogue still do the usual things: Solitaire, and win by turn 7 or 8.” -In response to not nerfing a very skilltesting fatigue deck that cant win turn 7 nor turn 8
“Watching bluzzard after they coughed out a splew of mismatched trash is like watching some poor sap trying to put out fire with gasoline.” -In response to entire patch
“Yeah they dont know how the meta works i guess they are just doing stuff to people complain most but never think what happens next looks like devs trying to kill the game” -To entire patch
“A problem created to the devs (Shadow priest) = Nerf Illucia. Delete de f*ing class and I uninstall the game.” -In response to Illucia nerf being too harsh I think?
DustenStein (4.1)3 days ago Nice try but it's still a country
DustenStein (4.1)3 days ago Wow. THat's off topic. But yeah. Only a bit but yeah.
Mzop (3.9)3 days ago off topic but also like, doesnt finland kind of look like a lady?
TheInnkeeper0013 days ago The Hearthstone devs should add this to the shop for all first-time players, no? It only costs 99 Gold...
DustenStein (4.1)5 days ago As someone who still plays the game, it's sad to see the community so unhappy. I see where blizzard is struggling but then again, they can definitely do better.
I'm not very active here because there's a Discord and I can post pictures more easily there so I kinda moved there. (To be fair, it's not particularly active there for what I assume to be the same reason.)
keyvnn9 (3.9)5 days ago (Just gonna say I dont think the Mercenaries cards are a good metric of that)
Kosmyc (3.5)5 days ago I've been having a lot of fun with Quest Rogue recently--absolutely destroys questlock and MOST aggro decks but loses to oddly enough Handbuff Paladin and Quest Mage (no minions for SI:7 Extortion or SI:7 Assassin).
It's weirdly a midrange deck tbh, as close as you can get in this meta anywho. Your big power spikes are turn 5-6 when you can start slamming down 1 mana 4/4 Assassinates and 4 mana 9/9s, but it's pretty slow until then.
I'm missing Secret Passages but substituted them (and backstabs) for Dirty Tricks and Cornelius (lucky day 1 unpack). Super fun deck all in all, and kinda underrated. If we get more SI:7 support from the mini-set, it has potential to be T2 or even T1.
MosnarNoedig5 days ago You just summarized my entire feeling on the game. I slowed down in Outland and quit around Darkmoon Faire. I'm not paying for BG, so I don't really ever open HS anymore.
Poondaedalin (4)5 days ago You're good. It's mainly just that a good chunk of the community is slowly starting to stop caring about the game. I stopped playing in Outland, and even then, I was one of the last people in my friend group to quit. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the game is dying, but morale surrounding the game and the community is at an all-time low. The fact that there were barely any submissions for Mercenaries-related cards says a lot about how this community feels about the new team. Honestly, the only reason I'm still here is because y'all are fun to talk with, and you design cards better than Blizzard a lot of the time. If not for that, I would've left this forum a LONG time ago.
Kapiork5 days ago Nah, it's not the reason, don't worry keyv.
keyvnn9 (3.9)5 days ago Friendly chat’s been slow recently. I hope it isnt because half the messages are from me
keyvnn9 (3.9)6 days ago Another direction: Buffs!
7 buffs split among Mage, Hunter, and Warrior. Any guesses?
I have some ideas that are pretty far out and that I havent looked into at all, but if any are right I’ll look like a genius
Wyrmweaver: 4 mana 2/7. Mage buff will almost certainly be a minion imo, so why not buff the most minionly minion that generates minions? Get Mages on the board!
Sunscale Raptor: Gains +3/+2. I want this to be better than Raptor Hatchling. Maybe this would also make Warsong Wrangler target something other than Trampling Rhino
Jewel of N’zoth: 7 mana. They buffed N’zoth, so why not the jewel? I think Deathrattle Hunter would be an interesting direction to go. I also want Imported Tarantula to be good
Cruel Taskmaster: 3/2. A personal favorite that I always associated with Argent Protector. Could get the same slight buff
Remote-Controlled Golem: Shuffles 3/1s. I didnt know this card existed. Ticket Master was printed 2 expansions before.
Bloodboil Brute: Nerf reverted (6/8). This was nerfed with Bloodsworn Mercenary, Hanar, and Priestess of Fury in the same patch that buffed Aldor Attendant and Torrent. Libram of Justice wouldnt cost 5 mana for another month. If that sounds like a long time ago, it’s because it is. Times are different now (and no more Bloodsworn)
keyvnn9 (3.9)6 days ago I dont think the HoF even technically exists any more. But I think most cards there wont be coming back, because theyd either be too weak (Rag, Azure Drake ) or the toxic/power reason they were rotated is still a problem (Conceal, Power Overwhelming)
DustenStein (4.1)6 days ago Do you mean for balance reasons or just whether it is possible? Because if it's the latter, yes they can. With the Core set which changes every year, I wouldn't be surprised if they brought back HoF'd cards
Kosmyc (3.5)6 days ago Can old HoF'd cards come back? For example, Rag is now strictly worse than Illidari Inquisitor, and that card is even too slow for this meta.
keyvnn9 (3.9)1 week ago I hope this helps https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reap ers-radar/
DustenStein (4.1)1 week ago Hey, keyvnn. Sorry to bother you about this topic again but how do you read class radar on ViciousSyndicate? Is there a tutorial for the website? ^^'
keyvnn9 (3.9)1 week ago This happened at silver 10 in standard. I dont play wild
DustenStein (4.1)1 week ago What rank and what format?
keyvnn9 (3.9)1 week ago Meaning my first game lost ever to (a player who played Stealer of Souls), not my first game lost ever (to a player who played Stealer of Souls)
keyvnn9 (3.9)1 week ago I lost my first game ever to an opponent who played Stealer of Souls today
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago I do use hsreplay but mostly as a curiosity thing (I wonder how many times people have played new Deathwing )
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago Yeah, vicioussyndicate posts articles every Thursday but only if there werent nerfs that week (and there are frequent nerfs now)
As for comparing sources, I dont really know what would be a fair comparison. Hsreplay for instance (at least the free version) isnt a meta analysis source, it’s just data, and that can go wrong when you search for “top winrate decks” and it’s two different niche aggro decklists with 65% winrate and 500 games played at all ranks (hint: people who netdeck aggro at Bronze 8 probably win lots of games). In their meta section it’s better because they talk about archetypes instead of exact decklists, but then there they no longer tell you sample size. Though there is that mystery paid “popularity” section
It’s a good source, it just doesnt do the same stuff
Caesar (4)2 weeks ago For me it's:
1) ViciousSyndicate - Main source. The stats are amazing and very rarely miss.
But to gather such complete data takes time, so the site isn't always up to date (I don't listen to the podcasts so maybe that could make up for it);
2) HS Replay - Just a quick look, because there are many many decks. But don't completely trust the winrates: data is across every player so difficult decks lose a ton of points while easy ones gain;
3) HS Grandmasters - Quick look at what are the most recent brings to get an idea of very high level meta. Warning, some decks may have a high bring rate just to counter popular decks but aren't actually good ladder choices.
For Wild I have no idea, just listen to Zeddy complaining about what's broken or make my own decks xD (hope it's useful )
DustenStein (4.1)2 weeks ago Only vicioussyndicate? I feel like comparing two or three sites would be more reliable. Although I do have to say that the data there is pretty impressive
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago I use vicioussyndicate because theyre responsible with sample size, have good data analysis to get info about types of decks, hire class experts, and have informative articles written by an editor who understands the game really well. And a podcast (I was skeptical about podcasts until I started listening to it)
Pros: Accuracy, expertise, commentary, podcast
Cons: Cant publish continuous stream of articles, ads lag mobile sometimes
DustenStein (4.1)2 weeks ago Hey, @keyvnn, where do you get your data from? About what's good and what's not?
DustenStein (4.1)2 weeks ago I kinda like games like that although I think won't be able to put enough time into it to make it fun
DustenStein (4.1)2 weeks ago I am low-key excited yeah
Kosmyc (3.5)2 weeks ago Anyone else kinda excited about Mercenaries?
Kapiork2 weeks ago Decks dont need to be good to be complained about.
Tickatus
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago This is just my long winded way of saying I dont think the end is nigh
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago Decks dont need to be good to be complained about.
Stealer of Souls
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago The only way I can think of making this meta more complained about is to make one class able to stall the game out to turn 22 and run your Quest deck out of cards. Even if that deck were tier 4
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago I agree. Control decks have to be below tier 1 to be good for the meta. But having them be viable at all makes the game more interesting by expanding the number of different situations a deck can be in, rather than orienting the entire game around 'kill or die immediately.'
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago Control decks without win conditions are always the most complained about good decks
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago Combo decks are just control decks that win instantly instead of over time and are slightly worse at control because of it.
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago Which is what combo decks do? They defend, react, and power cycle until their unstoppable win condition comes online.
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago They respond to the board until they get their win condition online, with the occasional Flesh Giant to support their board and damage
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago Nah, the quest decks come out swinging early and just continually hammer you in the face until you die. Not much reactivity to be had.
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago Theyre just really good at it
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago Sounds like the big three Quest decks to me
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago Not necessarily spike, but decks that focus on using their resources wisely and consistently having more to do later on.
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago So control decks are decks that power spike in the late game?
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago What defines a control deck for me is having a deck that has more overall 'stuff' than other decks and slows the game down so it can consistently use its resources more efficiently to threaten and destroy the opponent. Essentially, control decks are focused on outperforming the opponent gradually, while combo decks are focused on eliminating the opponent in some unstoppable, uninteractive way.
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago Proactive decks (aggro, midrange, tempo, blah)
Reactive decks (control)
Inactive decks (combo)
Is how I think of it
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago I think of control decks as trying to control the flow of the game, while capital C Combo decks dont
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago This is a problem I often have with “archetypes”
Are control decks decks that dont have a win condition?
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago I think those are what people typically call 'combo' decks.
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago I mean, there are lots of control decks, they just have finishers that activate very fast
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago Precisely. I just wish (perhaps hopelessly) that there was a spot for everyone - at least one 45%+ winrate of each of the trinity deck types - combo, aggro, and control, and that at least 6 or 7 the classes had a deck with a positive winrate. The second may be true already, I haven't deeply analyzed the statistics.
MosnarNoedig2 weeks ago Obviously I don't want a pure control meta, I just wish that games went to turns later than 6-7 in... let's say at least 20% of games, bar conceding.
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago And Ill just say 2 more things
-Wild Casual is still a thing, just queue into Casual with a Wild deck
-Trust me, “the control meta” is a mirage. Last time it really happened, it had to be nerfed because it turns out 62 card fatigue decks are a horrible experience
keyvnn9 (3.9)2 weeks ago First of all, sorry to hear
I will just say that the Stormwind meta is abnormally fast. Even back in Barrens slow strategies existed and could work
As for balance… Obviously everyone wants different things from a meta, but if “balanced” means that there are no power outliers, and that most or all classes are viable, then we’ve had some good moments. Scholomance was one of the most balanced expansion releases by this definition until the nerfs
Ive thought for a while that there exists a deck for anyone in any meta, and while that might be less true right now for people who want long thoughtful games, I think fun can still be extracted from this meta.
Games definitely tend to get less interesting to a person over time, but if you want to try some decks, I could try to fanagle you my battle id and could do friendly battle deck sharing
MosnarNoedig3 weeks ago I get why Blizzard does. I don't. And the majority of the more involved members of the community seem to share my view.
DustenStein (4.1)3 weeks ago They prefer more aggressive metas.
It also seems they have reduced the number of fun cards for all classes which is a bummer
MosnarNoedig3 weeks ago I agree with most of that, though I actually quite like Hearthstone's art style. I don't see a reasonable path back to a balanced meta, though, save for a massive nerf that hits dozens of cards and essentially redefines what an acceptable power level is.
Poondaedalin (4)3 weeks ago Pardon my rant, but I've been mulling over this for a while, and I wanted to get it off my chest.
Poondaedalin (4)3 weeks ago I guess. I'm only really active in this chat since I like talking with y'all, but I haven't played the actual game since Outland, and I have a feeling that I'm not alone in that. Wild Casual is gone, and the Ranked meta has only gotten more and more stale with time, so there's almost no reason for me to play the game. Duels and BG are an option, but I didn't come to Hearthstone to play Auto-Chess. I didn't come to Hearthstone to play Raid: Shadow Legends, either. I came to Hearthstone to play a decently well-balanced virtual card game, but Blizzard has proven over and over that they prefer people playing solitaire and ending games by Turn 6 to actual balanced metas. Normally I wouldn't complain, but ever since Scholomance, they've done it OVER and OVER and OVER, and they haven't learned. I lack any confidence in the new dev team, the art style is bastardized and odd, and the daily quests and achievements were horribly bungled. Overall, Hearthstone feels like it's lost its purpose. It was designed to be a light-hearted cousin to WoW, but Blizzard has been pushing harder and harder to put Hearthstone in center-stage, and Hearthstone is not designed to be in the spotlight, The heat of the spotlight is making Hearthstone melt, and it shows.
keyvnn9 (3.9)3 weeks ago Comments have been really slow. September syndrome?
DustenStein (4.1)3 weeks ago I believe he means Hearthcards
Poondaedalin (4)3 weeks ago @Stoneskin Troll There are currently two minions in the game with the "All" tribe: Nightmare Amalgam, which was added during The Witchwood in April 2018, and Circus Amalgam, which was added during Madness at the Darkmoon Faire in November 2020.
Basic) (
Discord Server: https://discord.gg/mFsZHbmQbb
This is friendly chat but 0kay ill try on discord :)
@Kath it is quite unclassy to advertise your card in the comment sections of other cards. Try the Discord.
Hey can you guys check my new card. It's called Ysera, Mother of Dreams.
fair, just a bit sad.
disenchanted a Lothar from a pack to craft the rest of the tool neccessary for Boar Hunter... I got the achivement yesterday against a Face Hunter
If the primary goal is to make the necessary nerfs, then making a worse field for a fun and fancy deck is an sad but necessary side effect
"How did they nerf Quest rogue?"
This was misleading, I meant that Quest Rogue's good MUs got nerfed and their bad ones got untouched.
здраво пријатели, се надевам дека имате убав ден :). Исто само да знаете дека јас се враќам во хибернација па нема да слушнете од мене неколку месеци
-Мзоп
@Mzop Either that or Alterac Valley.
At least you got the class that would get the most buffs right haha
Even my one nerf guess (I didnt post it but Backfire to 4 mana) didnt happen
I got 0 predictions right :’(
prediction for next set is wintergrasp, its icy like the set thing and horde and alliance fight, prob gonna add the vault of archavon bosses as legendaries or som.
Also, next set? Like third of this year? I doubt that highly unless there's strong evidence it's not going to be a confrontation between Horde and Alliance
I hoped it would take them much longer
I'd rather they didn't until I'm done in a year or so but it's probably inevitable at this point
I remember someone here thinking of making a shadowland custom set. Well guess what, that could be hs' next set! they will release 4 or 5 shadowland hero skins
How did they nerf Quest rogue?
"Quest Rogue got nerfed, and Quest Mage remains untouched"
History repeats itself lmao
look man I'm just excited because boar hunter got buffed (both the weapon and the minion are synergistic in the archetype)
unforuntately Quest Rogue got nerfed (it's two worst matchups, Quest Mage and Handbuff Paladin remain untouched)
I will just say: These complaints about the game have been happening since Naxxramas. This situation where Blizzard doesnt care about the game anymore has never been a new development. Except in Naxxramas.
The DH nerf was a very necessary thing from what I know, even without nerfing the other classes
those were meta predictions btw (this is the final final comment though
Final comment for now (probably):
My bet is on Pirate Warrior WITHOUT the Questline. Since some decks will still run it, it will have a clear advantage on turn 1 and if it manages to maintain it (for example using Shiver their Timbers (or whatever it's called)) and hit face, it might become super strong.
Second place will still be occupied by a variation Handbuff Paly since it's good right now already and its weaknesses are Shaman, Lock and Mage of which two were nerfed.
Third place by either Taunt Druid. Fourth Garrote Rogue if it gets easier to use, otherwise a variation on Quest Shaman.
Below that are Quest Pirate Warrior, Secret Paly, Mage, Demon Hunter, Hunter and Warlock, maybe even in that order
Out of the Pirate buffs, Freebooter worries me the most (assuming they keep playing the Questline). Even though 1 mana 2/2 with upside is great, Freebooter was already a wonderful card in a lot of situations and now that the body itself is great, it might be very strong for its Cost
I keep forgetting that Priest is Aggro-focused in this expansion! It's funny how far Priest has come as a class. As for my comment, I was mainly thinking about Priest's historical characteristics, but I feel like they still sorta shine through today, since, as with the destroy effects and rez effects, there's not a whole lot your opponent can do about aggro, and the things that do work will likely make your opponent concede immediately, which isn't a particularly fulfilling victory. No matter if you win or lose, you're coming out of that fight less happy than when you entered.
I didn't know Brute needed nerfs and that's all I'm gonna say about that.
Perpetual Flame is only good since there are cards that unlock mana crystals pretty constantly (in my experience). I think the Cost nerf will make it weaker but in a bad way.
As for your comment Poonda, Priest's best strategy is aggro Shadow Priest. It uses Illucia to "take an extra turn" by leaving its hand empty and switching with their opponent to steal their answers to everything.
Buffs are alarming but exciting. Who knows who will prevail? Aggro Pirate Warrior? Will they dump the quest for tempo or will they midrange and use the Quest reward? Will Hero Power Mage make a comeback? Will Quest Mage start running minions? Will hunter's strategy be still as bad?
I would've liked to see it as a 2 Mana with that effect as well, tbh. It was already being used as an aggro card, but seeing it being used as a temporary hand-fill card like Evocation would have been really cool, and 3 Mana is way too high of a cost for that.
As for the nerfs, I think Warlocks Quest is fair. I would have preferred the "damage dealt by *cards*"-nerf but that's alright too, guess. Doesn't hit handlock as bad. Rod is fair. Those discounts get out of hand pretty quickly. I'm a little bummed out about Illucia. They didn't even unnerf the Cost. I think it's pointless to play it now since you don't even outplay your opponent in any way that they could not have forseen. Pointless at least in a way it was run before.
Look, as much of a cesspool as Blizzard post comments are, you can't deny that these card changes are, at the very least, alarming. 1 Mana 2/2 with an upside that curves into Fiery Waraxe on Turn 2 alongside a Dread Corsair for 1 Mana on the following turn is a terrifying prospect. That being said, Priest in Hearthstone is a lot like Pyro in TF2. They could be nerfed to the point of complete unusuability, but as long as they exist, some random doofus is going to get mad and write an essay about how the class is horribly unbalanced and deserved to be nerfed. It's just in the nature of a class built around annoying core characteristics. Losing your progress in a fight after your opponent heals half their Health and randomly having your minions destroyed with little effort by your opponent feels bad.
I like the buffs A LOT. They are so strong. Can't wait for everything to change. Hero Power Mage will be interesting to play around with now that Wildfire costs 1 mana.
Also, keyvnn, it doesn't matter what those people think. what do you think?
“Seriously just fire the entire development team because you guys are absolutly clueless” -In response to only halving and otherwise nerfing Leapfrog build
“Killed the warlock, practically excluded a class from the game, while quest mage will remain op and toxic. Ty Blizzard. Uninstalling the game.” -In response to nerfing the most complained about class and not the most overplayed and weak class
“It’s official, they are purposely trying to kill the game. Nobody is this Oblivious or ignorant.” -In response to reverting turn length increase turns 3-9, complaint about length of “later rounds”
“Garrote Rogue still do the usual things: Solitaire, and win by turn 7 or 8.” -In response to not nerfing a very skilltesting fatigue deck that cant win turn 7 nor turn 8
“Watching bluzzard after they coughed out a splew of mismatched trash is like watching some poor sap trying to put out fire with gasoline.” -In response to entire patch
“Yeah they dont know how the meta works i guess they are just doing stuff to people complain most but never think what happens next looks like devs trying to kill the game” -To entire patch
“A problem created to the devs (Shadow priest) = Nerf Illucia. Delete de f*ing class and I uninstall the game.” -In response to Illucia nerf being too harsh I think?
Nice try but it's still a country
or is it off topic?
Wow. THat's off topic. But yeah. Only a bit but yeah.
off topic but also like, doesnt finland kind of look like a lady?
The Hearthstone devs should add this to the shop for all first-time players, no? It only costs 99 Gold...
As someone who still plays the game, it's sad to see the community so unhappy. I see where blizzard is struggling but then again, they can definitely do better.
I'm not very active here because there's a Discord and I can post pictures more easily there so I kinda moved there. (To be fair, it's not particularly active there for what I assume to be the same reason.)
(Just gonna say I dont think the Mercenaries cards are a good metric of that)
I've been having a lot of fun with Quest Rogue recently--absolutely destroys questlock and MOST aggro decks but loses to oddly enough Handbuff Paladin and Quest Mage (no minions for SI:7 Extortion or SI:7 Assassin).
It's weirdly a midrange deck tbh, as close as you can get in this meta anywho. Your big power spikes are turn 5-6 when you can start slamming down 1 mana 4/4 Assassinates and 4 mana 9/9s, but it's pretty slow until then.
I'm missing Secret Passages but substituted them (and backstabs) for Dirty Tricks and Cornelius (lucky day 1 unpack). Super fun deck all in all, and kinda underrated. If we get more SI:7 support from the mini-set, it has potential to be T2 or even T1.
You just summarized my entire feeling on the game. I slowed down in Outland and quit around Darkmoon Faire. I'm not paying for BG, so I don't really ever open HS anymore.
You're good. It's mainly just that a good chunk of the community is slowly starting to stop caring about the game. I stopped playing in Outland, and even then, I was one of the last people in my friend group to quit. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the game is dying, but morale surrounding the game and the community is at an all-time low. The fact that there were barely any submissions for Mercenaries-related cards says a lot about how this community feels about the new team. Honestly, the only reason I'm still here is because y'all are fun to talk with, and you design cards better than Blizzard a lot of the time. If not for that, I would've left this forum a LONG time ago.
Nah, it's not the reason, don't worry keyv.
Friendly chat’s been slow recently. I hope it isnt because half the messages are from me
Another direction: Buffs!
7 buffs split among Mage, Hunter, and Warrior. Any guesses?
I have some ideas that are pretty far out and that I havent looked into at all, but if any are right I’ll look like a genius
Wyrmweaver: 4 mana 2/7. Mage buff will almost certainly be a minion imo, so why not buff the most minionly minion that generates minions? Get Mages on the board!
Sunscale Raptor: Gains +3/+2. I want this to be better than Raptor Hatchling. Maybe this would also make Warsong Wrangler target something other than Trampling Rhino
Jewel of N’zoth: 7 mana. They buffed N’zoth, so why not the jewel? I think Deathrattle Hunter would be an interesting direction to go. I also want Imported Tarantula to be good
Cruel Taskmaster: 3/2. A personal favorite that I always associated with Argent Protector. Could get the same slight buff
Remote-Controlled Golem: Shuffles 3/1s. I didnt know this card existed. Ticket Master was printed 2 expansions before.
Bloodboil Brute: Nerf reverted (6/8). This was nerfed with Bloodsworn Mercenary, Hanar, and Priestess of Fury in the same patch that buffed Aldor Attendant and Torrent. Libram of Justice wouldnt cost 5 mana for another month. If that sounds like a long time ago, it’s because it is. Times are different now (and no more Bloodsworn)
I dont think the HoF even technically exists any more. But I think most cards there wont be coming back, because theyd either be too weak (Rag, Azure Drake
Do you mean for balance reasons or just whether it is possible? Because if it's the latter, yes they can. With the Core set which changes every year, I wouldn't be surprised if they brought back HoF'd cards
Can old HoF'd cards come back? For example, Rag is now strictly worse than Illidari Inquisitor, and that card is even too slow for this meta.
Yes thank you
I hope this helps https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reap
ers-radar/
Hey, keyvnn. Sorry to bother you about this topic again but how do you read class radar on ViciousSyndicate? Is there a tutorial for the website? ^^'
This happened at silver 10 in standard. I dont play wild
What rank and what format?
Meaning my first game lost ever to (a player who played Stealer of Souls), not my first game lost ever (to a player who played Stealer of Souls)
I lost my first game ever to an opponent who played Stealer of Souls today
I do use hsreplay but mostly as a curiosity thing (I wonder how many times people have played new Deathwing
Yeah, vicioussyndicate posts articles every Thursday but only if there werent nerfs that week (and there are frequent nerfs now)
As for comparing sources, I dont really know what would be a fair comparison. Hsreplay for instance (at least the free version) isnt a meta analysis source, it’s just data, and that can go wrong when you search for “top winrate decks” and it’s two different niche aggro decklists with 65% winrate and 500 games played at all ranks (hint: people who netdeck aggro at Bronze 8 probably win lots of games). In their meta section it’s better because they talk about archetypes instead of exact decklists, but then there they no longer tell you sample size. Though there is that mystery paid “popularity” section
It’s a good source, it just doesnt do the same stuff
For me it's:
1) ViciousSyndicate - Main source. The stats are amazing and very rarely miss.
But to gather such complete data takes time, so the site isn't always up to date (I don't listen to the podcasts so maybe that could make up for it);
2) HS Replay - Just a quick look, because there are many many decks. But don't completely trust the winrates: data is across every player so difficult decks lose a ton of points while easy ones gain;
3) HS Grandmasters - Quick look at what are the most recent brings to get an idea of very high level meta. Warning, some decks may have a high bring rate just to counter popular decks but aren't actually good ladder choices.
For Wild I have no idea, just listen to Zeddy complaining about what's broken or make my own decks xD (hope it's useful
Only vicioussyndicate? I feel like comparing two or three sites would be more reliable. Although I do have to say that the data there is pretty impressive
I use vicioussyndicate because theyre responsible with sample size, have good data analysis to get info about types of decks, hire class experts, and have informative articles written by an editor who understands the game really well. And a podcast (I was skeptical about podcasts until I started listening to it)
Pros: Accuracy, expertise, commentary, podcast
Cons: Cant publish continuous stream of articles, ads lag mobile sometimes
I use HSREPLAY
Hey, @keyvnn, where do you get your data from? About what's good and what's not?
I kinda like games like that although I think won't be able to put enough time into it to make it fun
I am low-key excited yeah
Anyone else kinda excited about Mercenaries?
Decks dont need to be good to be complained about.
Tickatus
This is just my long winded way of saying I dont think the end is nigh
Decks dont need to be good to be complained about.
Stealer of Souls
The only way I can think of making this meta more complained about is to make one class able to stall the game out to turn 22 and run your Quest deck out of cards. Even if that deck were tier 4
I agree. Control decks have to be below tier 1 to be good for the meta. But having them be viable at all makes the game more interesting by expanding the number of different situations a deck can be in, rather than orienting the entire game around 'kill or die immediately.'
Remember Priest
Control decks without win conditions are always the most complained about good decks
Combo decks are just control decks that win instantly instead of over time and are slightly worse at control because of it.
Which is what combo decks do? They defend, react, and power cycle until their unstoppable win condition comes online.
They respond to the board until they get their win condition online, with the occasional Flesh Giant to support their board and damage
Nah, the quest decks come out swinging early and just continually hammer you in the face until you die. Not much reactivity to be had.
Theyre just really good at it
Sounds like the big three Quest decks to me
Not necessarily spike, but decks that focus on using their resources wisely and consistently having more to do later on.
So control decks are decks that power spike in the late game?
What defines a control deck for me is having a deck that has more overall 'stuff' than other decks and slows the game down so it can consistently use its resources more efficiently to threaten and destroy the opponent. Essentially, control decks are focused on outperforming the opponent gradually, while combo decks are focused on eliminating the opponent in some unstoppable, uninteractive way.
Proactive decks (aggro, midrange, tempo, blah)
Reactive decks (control)
Inactive decks (combo)
Is how I think of it
I think of control decks as trying to control the flow of the game, while capital C Combo decks dont
This is a problem I often have with “archetypes”
Are control decks decks that dont have a win condition?
I think those are what people typically call 'combo' decks.
I mean, there are lots of control decks, they just have finishers that activate very fast
Precisely. I just wish (perhaps hopelessly) that there was a spot for everyone - at least one 45%+ winrate of each of the trinity deck types - combo, aggro, and control, and that at least 6 or 7 the classes had a deck with a positive winrate. The second may be true already, I haven't deeply analyzed the statistics.
This is an abnormal meta
Obviously I don't want a pure control meta, I just wish that games went to turns later than 6-7 in... let's say at least 20% of games, bar conceding.
And Ill just say 2 more things
-Wild Casual is still a thing, just queue into Casual with a Wild deck
-Trust me, “the control meta” is a mirage. Last time it really happened, it had to be nerfed because it turns out 62 card fatigue decks are a horrible experience
First of all, sorry to hear
I will just say that the Stormwind meta is abnormally fast. Even back in Barrens slow strategies existed and could work
As for balance… Obviously everyone wants different things from a meta, but if “balanced” means that there are no power outliers, and that most or all classes are viable, then we’ve had some good moments. Scholomance was one of the most balanced expansion releases by this definition until the nerfs
Ive thought for a while that there exists a deck for anyone in any meta, and while that might be less true right now for people who want long thoughtful games, I think fun can still be extracted from this meta.
Games definitely tend to get less interesting to a person over time, but if you want to try some decks, I could try to fanagle you my battle id and could do friendly battle deck sharing
I get why Blizzard does. I don't. And the majority of the more involved members of the community seem to share my view.
They prefer more aggressive metas.
It also seems they have reduced the number of fun cards for all classes which is a bummer
I agree with most of that, though I actually quite like Hearthstone's art style. I don't see a reasonable path back to a balanced meta, though, save for a massive nerf that hits dozens of cards and essentially redefines what an acceptable power level is.
Pardon my rant, but I've been mulling over this for a while, and I wanted to get it off my chest.
I guess. I'm only really active in this chat since I like talking with y'all, but I haven't played the actual game since Outland, and I have a feeling that I'm not alone in that. Wild Casual is gone, and the Ranked meta has only gotten more and more stale with time, so there's almost no reason for me to play the game. Duels and BG are an option, but I didn't come to Hearthstone to play Auto-Chess. I didn't come to Hearthstone to play Raid: Shadow Legends, either. I came to Hearthstone to play a decently well-balanced virtual card game, but Blizzard has proven over and over that they prefer people playing solitaire and ending games by Turn 6 to actual balanced metas. Normally I wouldn't complain, but ever since Scholomance, they've done it OVER and OVER and OVER, and they haven't learned. I lack any confidence in the new dev team, the art style is bastardized and odd, and the daily quests and achievements were horribly bungled. Overall, Hearthstone feels like it's lost its purpose. It was designed to be a light-hearted cousin to WoW, but Blizzard has been pushing harder and harder to put Hearthstone in center-stage, and Hearthstone is not designed to be in the spotlight, The heat of the spotlight is making Hearthstone melt, and it shows.
Comments have been really slow. September syndrome?
I believe he means Hearthcards
@Stoneskin Troll There are currently two minions in the game with the "All" tribe: Nightmare Amalgam, which was added during The Witchwood in April 2018, and Circus Amalgam, which was added during Madness at the Darkmoon Faire in November 2020.
There is