kala 5 years ago My take (sorry if it doesnt seem very constructive) is that on a single minion, lead doesn't matter enough to be keyworded. However, I really like it when it applies to all minions you control or all minions an opponent controls so I might either A. keyword THAT or B. keep the concept and don't keyword it but still publish cards using it. I just don't think attack order matters enough if only one minion has lead, which will be the case most of the time with the cards in the set so far.
DarkCalinou (creator)5 years ago Glad so many people gave a feedback. Thanks everyone.
DarkCalinou (creator)5 years ago Again this is interesting in synergy with other keywords & phrasings more than in its simplest form.
I know this is still perfectible, this idea isn't new for me, and looking where i came from I feel this is in a good state.
I didn't share all my ideas but I here is what it might also look like
"Your Beasts have Lead: Adapt"
"Give all enemy minions Lead: Silence this minion"
"Give all enemy minions Lead: Destroy this minion"
"Give all your minions Lead: Transform into a random minion that costs (1) more"
"At then end of your turn, give a friendly minion Lead: Gain Poisonous"
"Give two random minions in your hand Lead: Give your weapon +1 Attack"
"Battlecry, Lead and Deathrattle: Give +1 Health to a random minion in your hand."
Imo it's a nice way to smoothen powerful effect by either delaying it over several turns or spreading it among your minions.
Kuabulah5 years ago @Winbow isn't it great then that DarkCalinou ADDS importance of order of attacking? It was still important in Secrets and Taunts (how to trade or no attacking at all) and special effects such as that Frozen 8/8 Giant thing. The keyword also adds fluctuating value of cards in hand. While almost every balanced cards does this, I still like it. Kinda agree with @kala here though. It's more interesting if the keyword had for example "declare an attack on a minion", because it's far more the question to go face or not (Okay, come out now you SMOrcs). Idk if "declare" was neccessary, given you also have "during your turn". Mushroomixer is not less strong than Fungal I think. My almost equivalent to "Moss Binder" was (before change) considered "super broken" and yes it was. Devout is really hard to get value out, so it's OK and I'm happy it's a common. Fencer is late enough. But "before damage calculation" eats away taste calculations for me >_< Substracting 4 mana for the immediate assassinate, I think Zeliek is too strong. As you say: it should reach it's breaking point in the turn after summoned. You got the rarities really well and I like the cards (except Zeliek in an Arena late game). This was my not-so-short opinion. Congratulations, you reached the end.
kala 5 years ago Honestly, I don't see this coming into play often enough to justify keywording it. It only matters when you need to trade into a taunt (and even then only sometimes) or you have multiple minions with this keyword.
Ooka_Chaka_Baby5 years ago The last card could just be Rush. Lead: Destroy the target minion instead.
Meator5 years ago I like the idea of having a Leader on the board. In fact One leader as it only works for the first, which translates the fantasy really well. GJ
Winbow5 years ago ShootingStar I'm just saying that the order of the attacks isn't really important in Hearthstone.
Winbow5 years ago @ShootingStar You are right. Mushroomixer and Devout Acolyte also work well with the idea, but the changes are so minor and it could be like "After this minion attacks" which is more realistic and the others can be just "At the start of your turn"... And the "After this minion attacks" Keyword has been done.
ShootingStar 5 years ago @Winbow that is the most incorrect statement I've seen in a long time.
Winbow5 years ago It's basically "At the start of your turn" effect, because it doesn't really matter in hearthstone which one attacks first except in rare cases... sir Zeliek is the only one that needs the Keyword. I really like the cards tho. 4 stars.
TheFriendlyEnemy 5 years ago Really great work on all of these. I particularly like the Bulwarked Raider and Zeliek. Very well made.
DarkCalinou (creator)5 years ago Lead effect procs after the attack is declared but before the attack happens.
First idea I had long ago was to trigger effect after each attack, which offered infinite value without restriction and forced minions to be understated really bad for a delayed effect, making the Keyword inconsistent.
With the 1st attacking minion only restriction, it allows minions to be almost normally stated, given you cant trigger several Leaders in the same turn.
It forces player into a choice that doesnt always allow optimal trades in exchange for a little reward.
Of course this works better if the reward is reasonable given its recursive status.
I'd say a good Lead minion is balanced if it slightly overvalues its cost on its next turn (with few exceptions)
I feel this also works really fine in combination with other Keywords, especially Rush and Battlecry.
My take (sorry if it doesnt seem very constructive) is that on a single minion, lead doesn't matter enough to be keyworded. However, I really like it when it applies to all minions you control or all minions an opponent controls so I might either A. keyword THAT or B. keep the concept and don't keyword it but still publish cards using it. I just don't think attack order matters enough if only one minion has lead, which will be the case most of the time with the cards in the set so far.
Glad so many people gave a feedback. Thanks everyone.
Again this is interesting in synergy with other keywords & phrasings more than in its simplest form.
I know this is still perfectible, this idea isn't new for me, and looking where i came from I feel this is in a good state.
I didn't share all my ideas but I here is what it might also look like
"Your Beasts have Lead: Adapt"
"Give all enemy minions Lead: Silence this minion"
"Give all enemy minions Lead: Destroy this minion"
"Give all your minions Lead: Transform into a random minion that costs (1) more"
"At then end of your turn, give a friendly minion Lead: Gain Poisonous"
"Give two random minions in your hand Lead: Give your weapon +1 Attack"
"Battlecry, Lead and Deathrattle: Give +1 Health to a random minion in your hand."
Imo it's a nice way to smoothen powerful effect by either delaying it over several turns or spreading it among your minions.
@Winbow isn't it great then that DarkCalinou ADDS importance of order of attacking? It was still important in Secrets and Taunts (how to trade or no attacking at all) and special effects such as that Frozen 8/8 Giant thing. The keyword also adds fluctuating value of cards in hand. While almost every balanced cards does this, I still like it. Kinda agree with @kala here though. It's more interesting if the keyword had for example "declare an attack on a minion", because it's far more the question to go face or not (Okay, come out now you SMOrcs). Idk if "declare" was neccessary, given you also have "during your turn". Mushroomixer is not less strong than Fungal I think. My almost equivalent to "Moss Binder" was (before change) considered "super broken" and yes it was. Devout is really hard to get value out, so it's OK and I'm happy it's a common. Fencer is late enough. But "before damage calculation" eats away taste calculations for me >_< Substracting 4 mana for the immediate assassinate, I think Zeliek is too strong. As you say: it should reach it's breaking point in the turn after summoned. You got the rarities really well and I like the cards (except Zeliek in an Arena late game). This was my not-so-short opinion. Congratulations, you reached the end.
Honestly, I don't see this coming into play often enough to justify keywording it. It only matters when you need to trade into a taunt (and even then only sometimes) or you have multiple minions with this keyword.
The last card could just be Rush. Lead: Destroy the target minion instead.
I like the idea of having a Leader on the board. In fact One leader as it only works for the first, which translates the fantasy really well. GJ
ShootingStar I'm just saying that the order of the attacks isn't really important in Hearthstone.
@ShootingStar You are right. Mushroomixer and Devout Acolyte also work well with the idea, but the changes are so minor and it could be like "After this minion attacks" which is more realistic and the others can be just "At the start of your turn"... And the "After this minion attacks" Keyword has been done.
@Winbow that is the most incorrect statement I've seen in a long time.
It's basically "At the start of your turn" effect, because it doesn't really matter in hearthstone which one attacks first except in rare cases... sir Zeliek is the only one that needs the Keyword. I really like the cards tho. 4 stars.
Really great work on all of these. I particularly like the Bulwarked Raider and Zeliek. Very well made.
Lead effect procs after the attack is declared but before the attack happens.
First idea I had long ago was to trigger effect after each attack, which offered infinite value without restriction and forced minions to be understated really bad for a delayed effect, making the Keyword inconsistent.
With the 1st attacking minion only restriction, it allows minions to be almost normally stated, given you cant trigger several Leaders in the same turn.
It forces player into a choice that doesnt always allow optimal trades in exchange for a little reward.
Of course this works better if the reward is reasonable given its recursive status.
I'd say a good Lead minion is balanced if it slightly overvalues its cost on its next turn (with few exceptions)
I feel this also works really fine in combination with other Keywords, especially Rush and Battlecry.
Pros & Cons / Refine Ideas ?