MurlocAggroB4 years ago @DestroyerR You're drawing a card for 0 mana, though. It needs a notable cost. I like Poondaedalin's design.
DestroyerR4 years ago @Poondaelin that would be way too UP though. Permanently losing Health is a big disadvantage in Warlock
Poondaedalin4 years ago The lose Health aspect prevents the card from being busted with Violet Illusionist or self-damage cards by directly impacting your Health value.
Poondaedalin4 years ago I’ll post this here also for a potential rework of the card (I also posted this on a similar card called Demonic Deal):
We agree on most points so this post is kinda meaningless, but I just want to explain some things you mentioned:
"but this would be a pretty "uncomfortable" card in a control/combo deck because of the chances to pull Voidlord, DK, Twisting Nether, Mecha'thun or any big card"
That's true; Papercut doesn't fit into your everyday greedy control list. But this is exactly why I talked about Mecha'thun, because it doesn't need big value generatos like the Lich King or N'zoth. You already have a win-condition, so you just have to make sure you survive until then. And not only that - I purposely mentioned this archtype, because expensive removals like Twisting Nether are rare to be seen. Defile is much more better and it comes as early as turn 2. A big role for the outlook of this deck plays Hemet.
Regarding your argument about someone playing against aggro - I would say they have to run decktracker, in order to calculate the chances of drawing something big like a voidlord or Gul'dan. I won't deny, that people can still draw big boys from this spell and get punished by it, but if they decide that the risk isn't worth it, if it would cost them the game, they shouldn't play the card. Everything depends on the board state and how desperate you are for the draw.
"As for zoolock, I admit it is overtuned, but Warlock already has a lot of card draw (not an excuse, but still an important fact)"
I'm not a zoolock player, so I can't say which minions I would remove, in order to make my deck more consistent, but despite Papercut not being a minion itself it lets you find burst like Leeroy or Soulfire (or Doomguard in wild) faster. This is also very important to note.
"And making this 1 Mana isn't a good option either because then it's too weak when compared to Kobold Librarian."
Yeah, I was thinking the same before you replied to me. So that's a bummer. :/
Loki 4 years ago tbh I dont see how this card is OMG BROKEN OVER OP POWERED I can see it only in mechacthun deck and even then you may take huge damage if you unlucky. If you took like 1-2 damage, well, its pretty much Kobolt Librarian. In wild with Librarian it would be stronger, but not insane, wild have a lot of much more broken cards. In aggro it doesn't make sense at all, in control, again, often you will regret taking 8dmg.
So I'd say its fine
Lucious (creator)4 years ago @Kovachut Let me just start by saying how I understand that this is very powerful, realised that a moment too late :boomS:
However, here's why this is what it is. You will often deal the same or more damage as Kobold Librarian, but even if it's still ignorable damage (like you said, somewhere up to 4), this doesn't leave a minion behind. Granted, 1 Mana 2/1 are not powerful and this basically allows for a 28-card deck, but this would be a pretty "uncomfortable" card in a control/combo deck because of the chances to pull Voidlord, DK, Twisting Nether, Mecha'thun or any big card. The deck you showed obviously doesn't support this claim, due to many low-cost cards, but drawing something big could still end up losing you a match versus aggro. As for zoolock, I admit it is overtuned, but Warlock already has a lot of card draw (not an excuse, but still an important fact). Overall, I think this IS overpowered, should have put more thought in it, but remember: Kobold Librarian was also used everywhere since it came out untill it rotated to Wild where it's still extremly popular - the deck you showed also has 2 of them (and it also has Reno, so, yeah :wow: ). And making this 1 Mana isn't a good option either because then it's too weak when compared to Kobold Librarian.
Kovachut4 years ago "The damage you would receive from Papercut isn't that relevant, especially if you run a lot of cheap things"
With this sentence I didn't mean running only 1- or 2-mana threats, but everything relatively cheap (i.e 1-4). Just imagine how you would cast this spell for free and receive only 2-3 damage. It's kinda strong, isn't it? This is what I meant by saying, that the damaging part isn't really relevant, if this spell is comparable to Kobold Librarian but is even better than him.
Anyway I made the current post, because I wanted to support my words by linking a Mecha'thun deck in wild.
Please notice how 70% of the cards cost 0-4 mana. So with Papercut in that deck, you would draw cheap things and deal a small amount of damage to yourself most of the time.
Kovachut4 years ago Nice flavour, but the card is very overpowered.
The damage you would receive from Papercut isn't that relevant, especially if you run a lot of cheap things and you are playing against control as combo (Mecha'thun in wild). Kobold Librarian was a good example how the 2-damage drawback could be easily ignored, as it offered a card cycle for only one mana. This is so powerful, that I could see this being played in zoolock, in order for them to thin out their decks (instead of running fillers).
The only time, where you wouldn't want to get hurt, is against aggro or some burn decks, but this doesn't compensate the high power of this spell.
Right now warlock may lack good healing options in standard, but it wasn't long ago when we had amazing sustain tools like the DK or the Spellstones. And since control/handlock are core archtypes of this class, we are bound to get more of them in the near future.
Wiener_Schnitzel4 years ago This+Molten is the new Auchenai+Reno
ADankHeadHunter4 years ago Rip my boys who get unlucky and draw mountain giant
Lucious (creator)4 years ago "How it feels when you turn the page a bit too fast."
@DestroyerR You're drawing a card for 0 mana, though. It needs a notable cost. I like Poondaedalin's design.
@Poondaelin that would be way too UP though. Permanently losing Health is a big disadvantage in Warlock
The lose Health aspect prevents the card from being busted with Violet Illusionist or self-damage cards by directly impacting your Health value.
I’ll post this here also for a potential rework of the card (I also posted this on a similar card called Demonic Deal):
@ King Kuba
What can I say, I love writing long posts. :P
H o w l o n g c a n t h i s g o o n
@ Lucious
We agree on most points so this post is kinda meaningless, but I just want to explain some things you mentioned:
"but this would be a pretty "uncomfortable" card in a control/combo deck because of the chances to pull Voidlord, DK, Twisting Nether, Mecha'thun or any big card"
That's true; Papercut doesn't fit into your everyday greedy control list. But this is exactly why I talked about Mecha'thun, because it doesn't need big value generatos like the Lich King or N'zoth. You already have a win-condition, so you just have to make sure you survive until then. And not only that - I purposely mentioned this archtype, because expensive removals like Twisting Nether are rare to be seen. Defile is much more better and it comes as early as turn 2. A big role for the outlook of this deck plays Hemet.
Regarding your argument about someone playing against aggro - I would say they have to run decktracker, in order to calculate the chances of drawing something big like a voidlord or Gul'dan. I won't deny, that people can still draw big boys from this spell and get punished by it, but if they decide that the risk isn't worth it, if it would cost them the game, they shouldn't play the card. Everything depends on the board state and how desperate you are for the draw.
"As for zoolock, I admit it is overtuned, but Warlock already has a lot of card draw (not an excuse, but still an important fact)"
I'm not a zoolock player, so I can't say which minions I would remove, in order to make my deck more consistent, but despite Papercut not being a minion itself it lets you find burst like Leeroy or Soulfire (or Doomguard in wild) faster. This is also very important to note.
"And making this 1 Mana isn't a good option either because then it's too weak when compared to Kobold Librarian."
Yeah, I was thinking the same before you replied to me. So that's a bummer. :/
tbh I dont see how this card is OMG BROKEN OVER OP POWERED I can see it only in mechacthun deck and even then you may take huge damage if you unlucky. If you took like 1-2 damage, well, its pretty much Kobolt Librarian. In wild with Librarian it would be stronger, but not insane, wild have a lot of much more broken cards. In aggro it doesn't make sense at all, in control, again, often you will regret taking 8dmg.
So I'd say its fine
@Kovachut Let me just start by saying how I understand that this is very powerful, realised that a moment too late :boomS:
However, here's why this is what it is. You will often deal the same or more damage as Kobold Librarian, but even if it's still ignorable damage (like you said, somewhere up to 4), this doesn't leave a minion behind. Granted, 1 Mana 2/1 are not powerful and this basically allows for a 28-card deck, but this would be a pretty "uncomfortable" card in a control/combo deck because of the chances to pull Voidlord, DK, Twisting Nether, Mecha'thun or any big card. The deck you showed obviously doesn't support this claim, due to many low-cost cards, but drawing something big could still end up losing you a match versus aggro. As for zoolock, I admit it is overtuned, but Warlock already has a lot of card draw (not an excuse, but still an important fact). Overall, I think this IS overpowered, should have put more thought in it, but remember: Kobold Librarian was also used everywhere since it came out untill it rotated to Wild where it's still extremly popular - the deck you showed also has 2 of them (and it also has Reno, so, yeah :wow: ). And making this 1 Mana isn't a good option either because then it's too weak when compared to Kobold Librarian.
Unrelated P.S. Oh look, there's a chicken emote now! :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:
"The damage you would receive from Papercut isn't that relevant, especially if you run a lot of cheap things"
With this sentence I didn't mean running only 1- or 2-mana threats, but everything relatively cheap (i.e 1-4). Just imagine how you would cast this spell for free and receive only 2-3 damage. It's kinda strong, isn't it? This is what I meant by saying, that the damaging part isn't really relevant, if this spell is comparable to Kobold Librarian but is even better than him.
Anyway I made the current post, because I wanted to support my words by linking a Mecha'thun deck in wild.
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1273334-the-n
ew-old-mechathun-wild
Please notice how 70% of the cards cost 0-4 mana. So with Papercut in that deck, you would draw cheap things and deal a small amount of damage to yourself most of the time.
Nice flavour, but the card is very overpowered.
The damage you would receive from Papercut isn't that relevant, especially if you run a lot of cheap things and you are playing against control as combo (Mecha'thun in wild). Kobold Librarian was a good example how the 2-damage drawback could be easily ignored, as it offered a card cycle for only one mana. This is so powerful, that I could see this being played in zoolock, in order for them to thin out their decks (instead of running fillers).
The only time, where you wouldn't want to get hurt, is against aggro or some burn decks, but this doesn't compensate the high power of this spell.
Right now warlock may lack good healing options in standard, but it wasn't long ago when we had amazing sustain tools like the DK or the Spellstones. And since control/handlock are core archtypes of this class, we are bound to get more of them in the near future.
This+Molten is the new Auchenai+Reno
Rip my boys who get unlucky and draw mountain giant
"How it feels when you turn the page a bit too fast."
But still interesting
The art does't fit to name and effect.