Cosmic143 years ago @Ooka_Chaka_Baby's got a point about the delayed Lightforged Champion.
Ooka_Chaka_Baby3 years ago I would say the simplest change is just, make it a 4/4/2, or a 4/2/4. Other than that, really neat and tidy card. It is a bit of a hard punish for your opponent if they can't deal with it, so I think the 4/2/4 is the better option. Think of it as a delayed Lightforged Champion, and balance it that way.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago The problem I see, there's really a lot of cheap removal options and pretty much any 2 drop +HP or something from another source is able to deal with the egg, it is really oppressive, but it provides high risk-high reward kind of play
Cosmic143 years ago In light of this conversation, I'd argue changing the card to a 4 mana 4/3.
Stevethebarbarian 3 years ago Yeah it's like I said at the start of the conversation, this is way better than Nithogg, which is already pretty solid in and of itself. The difference between removing two 0/3s on 6 and one on 3 is astronomical. When an early-game tempo deck plays this, the egg will always hatch unless your opponent has fast damage to deal with it. And when it *does* hatch, you've just played a 3/7/6. Even in the WORST case scenario, it's a 3/3/2 that gains you 3 armor, which is bad, but not [i]that[/i] bad.
jammmison 3 years ago i'm really glad im not the only one who sees it though XD
jammmison 3 years ago but this card will be shamans strong early game, premium stats for a 3 drop. Hands down, its a 3 5 for 3.
Deloa3 years ago @jammison : most of the minion you compare it to are either bad or give don't have conditions to get tokens, so they control the board immediately. If this is printed in the current meta with Shaman not having good early game it's not good, it's meant to snowball.
Shoemanband3 years ago The difference in tempo between "Egg doesn't hatch" and "Egg does hatch" is so drastic that it's probably why it was put on a Legendary in the first place and not a 3 Mana Common.
Shoemanband3 years ago The problem with Nithogg is that it's a win-more card in a class that doesn't win. If you have control of the board by turn 6, Nithogg is great since it's difficult to deal with 11 Health split among 3 minions. If you're not in control, the eggs and Nithogg are easy targets to trading and removal.
This card has the same flaws in being an understatted body that summons a vulnerable trading target. However, the problem is that it's much easier to swipe control of the board by turn 3 or 2 on Coin. Many decks in the meta don't push hard for tempo in the first few turns (Spell Druid, Enrage Warrior, Priest), and they would have trouble dealing with a 2 and 3 Health minion on turn 3 in addition to the board you already developed.
Of course, given the current state of Shaman on ladder, just getting a good early curve is a tall order to fulfill. However, if they ever get a strong 1 or 2 drop in the future, this would be a nightmare to play against.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago Ah yes, easy board control with a 0/3.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago And it really depends on an archetype what cards would be stronger and how consistant they are, as this one is very inconsistant, compared to Egg Napper. For example, Sky Claw and Doubling Imp, are much better than this, as they are more consistant in their power level. Not to mention this is a Shaman card and those two are Paladin and Warlock
jammmison 3 years ago cool, when this card gets printed, ill play it in every shaman deck, try mulligan for it and play it on turn 3 or coin it on 2 to get ez board control.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago Primo - Class cards can be slightly stronger than neutral minions.
Secundo - Ah yes, Razonfen Hunter. That's a card which played so often in the meta, this card could possibly make Shamans consider if not to run this amazing and powerful card. (What I mean to say, comparing cards to unplayable weak cards makes no real sense, especially in the basic set. No one plays those cards, so cards really have to be STRONGER than those, so they can see any play. See River Crocolisk
and any other 2 mana 2/3.)
Tertius - This is quite different from Devilsaur Egg, as this egg makes your opponent want to kill it, when Devilsaur Egg is something they really don't want to kill.
jammmison 3 years ago I could go on, i think you get the idea XD
jammmison 3 years ago It's even better than snip sn4p on turn 3.
jammmison 3 years ago i'd even take this over devilsaur egg, you get a 3 2 body attatched to the 03 egg.
jammmison 3 years ago well then if this is at 3 mana, i would take this over razorfen hunter anyday, the stats are pretty much the same but a 0/3 egg is much better than a 1/1 on turn 3.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago That's why it's 3 mana
Deloa3 years ago At 4 Mana it would feel pretty bad, since in the best case you only get a delayed 4/4 (that also take a turn to attack) and a 3/2 that do nothing on turn 4. In constructed understated minions with delayed impact are usually overestimated I think.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago But at the same time you say a 5 mana 3/3 summon one egg is fine and 6 mana 5/5 summon two eggs is also fine. Even if your opponent manages to deal with the egg, you're left with a 3/2, which for 3 mana is not very much. If you manage to get a 4/4, that's good, but since you had to play an understated 3 drop, (because apperently an understated 3 drop is too strong, compared to an understated 6 drop) it requires some hustle to get any value off the egg, as you really don't need 6 mana to deal with a 0/3. Any other minions on the board can deal with that, a cheap spell, literally anything would be able to deal with a 0/3 and if they do, as I mentioned, you're left with a 3 mana 3/2. Wowie
jammmison 3 years ago Nithogg is also a legendary minion, which is meant to be limiting you to the value it gets, and also has lower stats, 5 5 for a 6 mana card, due to the eggs being a minion in itself that can be buffed easily with shaman spells and effects.
jammmison 3 years ago Nithogg is also a 6 cost minion remember, and that gives the opponent access to more mana to deal with the eggs. This is on turn 3. The only reason you do not see nithog being played isn't because he's weak, but because shaman itself is in a bad spot, and there are better 6 drops for shaman such as galakrond twice invoker 3 3 card.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago I mean, by that logic, Nithogg would be super op. And this would be just a 1 mana cheaper Nithogg with less stats and 1 less egg. Nithogg is a card that sees almost 0 play, so I think it's really not that big of an issue
jammmison 3 years ago This should be around 4-5 mana, and I can see this as a 5 mana card but maybe with better stats, like 3 3 or 4 3.
jammmison 3 years ago I see a problem here, Most eggs with high value effects, cost 3 mana by themselves. This would be way too strong for a 3 mana card, being able to summon a minion with stats, AND an egg, even without the ffect, the egg is strong and ccan get buffed.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago But Nithogg is so weak, I think it should be fine, it's not that strong, as it summons a 0/3 and a 3 mana 3/2 is managable
Stevethebarbarian 3 years ago And thus WAY more dangerous than Nithogg.
Marleon (4.2) (creator)3 years ago Nithogg, but small
@Ooka_Chaka_Baby's got a point about the delayed Lightforged Champion.
I would say the simplest change is just, make it a 4/4/2, or a 4/2/4. Other than that, really neat and tidy card. It is a bit of a hard punish for your opponent if they can't deal with it, so I think the 4/2/4 is the better option. Think of it as a delayed Lightforged Champion, and balance it that way.
The problem I see, there's really a lot of cheap removal options and pretty much any 2 drop +HP or something from another source is able to deal with the egg, it is really oppressive, but it provides high risk-high reward kind of play
In light of this conversation, I'd argue changing the card to a 4 mana 4/3.
Yeah it's like I said at the start of the conversation, this is way better than Nithogg, which is already pretty solid in and of itself. The difference between removing two 0/3s on 6 and one on 3 is astronomical. When an early-game tempo deck plays this, the egg will always hatch unless your opponent has fast damage to deal with it. And when it *does* hatch, you've just played a 3/7/6. Even in the WORST case scenario, it's a 3/3/2 that gains you 3 armor, which is bad, but not [i]that[/i] bad.
i'm really glad im not the only one who sees it though XD
but this card will be shamans strong early game, premium stats for a 3 drop. Hands down, its a 3 5 for 3.
@jammison : most of the minion you compare it to are either bad or give don't have conditions to get tokens, so they control the board immediately. If this is printed in the current meta with Shaman not having good early game it's not good, it's meant to snowball.
The difference in tempo between "Egg doesn't hatch" and "Egg does hatch" is so drastic that it's probably why it was put on a Legendary in the first place and not a 3 Mana Common.
The problem with Nithogg is that it's a win-more card in a class that doesn't win. If you have control of the board by turn 6, Nithogg is great since it's difficult to deal with 11 Health split among 3 minions. If you're not in control, the eggs and Nithogg are easy targets to trading and removal.
This card has the same flaws in being an understatted body that summons a vulnerable trading target. However, the problem is that it's much easier to swipe control of the board by turn 3 or 2 on Coin. Many decks in the meta don't push hard for tempo in the first few turns (Spell Druid, Enrage Warrior, Priest), and they would have trouble dealing with a 2 and 3 Health minion on turn 3 in addition to the board you already developed.
Of course, given the current state of Shaman on ladder, just getting a good early curve is a tall order to fulfill. However, if they ever get a strong 1 or 2 drop in the future, this would be a nightmare to play against.
Ah yes, easy board control with a 0/3.
And it really depends on an archetype what cards would be stronger and how consistant they are, as this one is very inconsistant, compared to Egg Napper. For example, Sky Claw and Doubling Imp, are much better than this, as they are more consistant in their power level. Not to mention this is a Shaman card and those two are Paladin and Warlock
cool, when this card gets printed, ill play it in every shaman deck, try mulligan for it and play it on turn 3 or coin it on 2 to get ez board control.
Primo - Class cards can be slightly stronger than neutral minions.
Secundo - Ah yes, Razonfen Hunter. That's a card which played so often in the meta, this card could possibly make Shamans consider if not to run this amazing and powerful card. (What I mean to say, comparing cards to unplayable weak cards makes no real sense, especially in the basic set. No one plays those cards, so cards really have to be STRONGER than those, so they can see any play. See River Crocolisk
and any other 2 mana 2/3.)
Tertius - This is quite different from Devilsaur Egg, as this egg makes your opponent want to kill it, when Devilsaur Egg is something they really don't want to kill.
I could go on, i think you get the idea XD
Onyxia
egg napper
doubling imp
sewer crawler
better than sky claw
better than tuskarr totemic
It's even better than snip sn4p on turn 3.
i'd even take this over devilsaur egg, you get a 3 2 body attatched to the 03 egg.
well then if this is at 3 mana, i would take this over razorfen hunter anyday, the stats are pretty much the same but a 0/3 egg is much better than a 1/1 on turn 3.
That's why it's 3 mana
At 4 Mana it would feel pretty bad, since in the best case you only get a delayed 4/4 (that also take a turn to attack) and a 3/2 that do nothing on turn 4. In constructed understated minions with delayed impact are usually overestimated I think.
But at the same time you say a 5 mana 3/3 summon one egg is fine and 6 mana 5/5 summon two eggs is also fine. Even if your opponent manages to deal with the egg, you're left with a 3/2, which for 3 mana is not very much. If you manage to get a 4/4, that's good, but since you had to play an understated 3 drop, (because apperently an understated 3 drop is too strong, compared to an understated 6 drop) it requires some hustle to get any value off the egg, as you really don't need 6 mana to deal with a 0/3. Any other minions on the board can deal with that, a cheap spell, literally anything would be able to deal with a 0/3 and if they do, as I mentioned, you're left with a 3 mana 3/2. Wowie
Nithogg is also a legendary minion, which is meant to be limiting you to the value it gets, and also has lower stats, 5 5 for a 6 mana card, due to the eggs being a minion in itself that can be buffed easily with shaman spells and effects.
Nithogg is also a 6 cost minion remember, and that gives the opponent access to more mana to deal with the eggs. This is on turn 3. The only reason you do not see nithog being played isn't because he's weak, but because shaman itself is in a bad spot, and there are better 6 drops for shaman such as galakrond twice invoker 3 3 card.
I mean, by that logic, Nithogg would be super op. And this would be just a 1 mana cheaper Nithogg with less stats and 1 less egg. Nithogg is a card that sees almost 0 play, so I think it's really not that big of an issue
This should be around 4-5 mana, and I can see this as a 5 mana card but maybe with better stats, like 3 3 or 4 3.
I see a problem here, Most eggs with high value effects, cost 3 mana by themselves. This would be way too strong for a 3 mana card, being able to summon a minion with stats, AND an egg, even without the ffect, the egg is strong and ccan get buffed.
But Nithogg is so weak, I think it should be fine, it's not that strong, as it summons a 0/3 and a 3 mana 3/2 is managable
And thus WAY more dangerous than Nithogg.
Nithogg, but small